JK Tarot Webzine, March 2003
Interview with Joseph Vargo about The Gothic Tarot
Which artists are the main influences on your style,
particularly as we see displayed in The Gothic Tarot?
My main artistic influence has always been fantasy art icon Frank Frazetta.
His work is seething with primal energy. He is a master at capturing a mood
and making the fantastic look believable. Many fantasy artists attempt to mimic
Frazetta's style, and I suppose I am guilty of this as well to some extent,
but I really learned a lot by studying his work. Because of him, I strive to
render my main characters as realistically as possible and I try to set a mood
without going overboard with intricately detailed backgrounds.
Were you a fan of horror and sci-fi magazines when
you were a kid? For example, did you ever read (or encounter anyway) "Creepy" or "Eerie"
magazines? A number of your cards remind me of Frazetta's covers for some
of those mags.
I remember seeing "Creepy" and "Eerie" as a kid, but
my parents didn't allow me to have them. I guess they were afraid that such
horrific stories and images would corrupt my impressionable young mind. But
I remember seeing one of Frazetta's art books when I was a teenager. It was
like a catalog of all those great covers he had painted over the years. I
stood there completely transfixed as I thumbed through page after page of
lavish artwork depicting sensuous, witchy women, monstrous beasts and primal,
dark warriors. I bought the book and it became the first of many editions
in my ever-growing fantasy art library.
With respect to Gothic style, and understanding it is
a complex subcultural expression, what in your view are the two or three main
ideas or themes Goths are articulating, and that you are hoping to express
in your artwork?
The terms "Goth" and "Gothic" have slightly different connotations.
Originally the word "Gothic"
was applied to the architecture of medieval cathedrals. Their style differed
so much from the established architecture of the times that they were designated "Gothic" as
a disparaging term in reference to the invading barbarian hordes that conquered
Rome.
Today the word "Goth"
represents a sub-culture of modern rebellion and decadence, whereas
"Gothic" refers to a dark and romantic style in line with the more
traditional Old World concepts of the term such as Gothic architecture and
the classic literature of writers like Stoker and Poe. Because of this, my
main themes for the images in this deck are ghosts, dark angels and gargoyle-encrusted
castles, with a strong emphasis on the darkly alluring creatures of the vampire
mythos.
You say you wished not to employ a
"random image" process in the selection of images to be used in your
Tarot, yet you also decided to use pre-existing artwork to "fit" certain
cards. In some cases however you created new works. Would you please discuss
this process, and how you decided which cards could do with artwork you
already had available and which demanded new artwork?
I have amassed quite a large body of gothic-themed work over the past twelve
years with various images that were originally created for calendars, posters
and CD covers, so I began by listing about one hundred images that might be
appropriate for the Gothic Tarot project. Next, I charted out which particular
images best fit the concepts of specific cards. In many cases, there were several
choices available for certain cards, but in other cases, none of my existing
images fit, so new artwork had to be created. Several works didn't fit in anywhere
and I didn't want to force them, so they were discarded. Very few of the existing
pieces that were used remained unaltered. For example, lightning was added
to The Tower, a wolf was added to The Fool, and backgrounds and color schemes
of many of the images were completely changed to fit the mood of the deck.
The various symbols of the suits were drawn by hand then added to the existing
artwork through the wonders of modern technology. Naturally, I wanted the images
that were chosen for the Major Arcana to be the strongest representations of
the traditional concepts.
It was really amazing how much of my existing
art lent itself to the Tarot. Examples of pre-existing artwork that fit smoothly
without any alterations are The High Priestess, The Emperor, The Lovers,
Strength, The Hermit, The Sun and The Moon, just to name a few. Cards such
as The Chariot and The Hanged Man are examples of art that was created specifically
for this deck.
Which one or two of your cards do you like the most
and do you feel was most successful in expressing both a Gothic and Tarotic
sensibility?
I took this project very seriously and worked very hard to achieve a seamless
blend between the two realms. I am quite proud of the fact that the entire
deck successfully intertwines both concepts, but if I had to choose just two
cards that best utilize gothic imagery to convey traditional Tarot concepts,
I would have to choose The Emperor and Strength. However, I think that my images
for The Sun and The Moon are better representations of the divinatory meanings
of those particular cards than the traditional illustrations.
Tarot, at least a certain idea about it, seems to be
part of the Gothic culture (or a lot of Goths seem to like Tarot anyway). Why
do you think that is?
Mainly because they both represent Old World concepts and things that are dark
and shrouded in mystery. A large portion of the modern Gothic community has
an appreciation for Occult symbolism purely on an aesthetic level while others
have genuine Pagan and Wiccan beliefs.
You chose to base your ideas and images on the Tarot
of A.E. Waite, at least as a "preliminary guide". Some people
might think Crowley's Thoth Tarot would be a better basis for the creation
of a Gothic Tarot. Did you also study Crowley's ideas or images in shaping
what you were doing?
No. Not at all. Crowley's concepts of the Tarot were very surrealistic and
not gothic in any sense. He was also of the misguided and unoriginal conception
that the Tarot was derived from the Egyptian Book of Thoth. Waite's Tarot was
the first deck to fully illustrate the Minor Arcana and utilizes esoteric symbolism
very well. Since I was going to exercise my own creativity and artistic license
in rendering the entire Major and Minor Arcana with a true gothic flair, I
went directly to the original source.
Your deck, as explained in the accompanying booklet,
focuses almost exclusively on the fortune-telling aspect of Tarot. You're not
apparently attempting to express any metaphysical or occultist dogma in your
deck, but are mainly intending it to be used both as an expression of Gothic
style and for divination. Is that correct?
Of course, although the Tarot itself utilizes imagery from a variety of doctrines,
and metaphysical and occult symbolism runs rampant throughout it. Christian,
Egyptian, and Hebrew motifs are all mingled together in most traditional decks.
Angels, demons, kings and queens are utilized as personifications of hope and
despair, prosperity and turmoil. The Tarot is an extraordinarily popular instrument
of divination and it should be left open for personal interpretation. It shouldn't
preach sermons or espouse any particular dogma. People who create decks like
that have their own agendas that are in direct contrast to the open-minded
principles of the Tarot. I'm not a Satanist and I'm not an Evangelist. I'm
not even what you would consider to be an Occultist, but I am intrigued by
the Tarot and I hold a fascination and respect for it.
Could you explain in a little more detail the Realm
Icon? I'm not familiar with it and would like to know, for example, which part
of it represents the dark force and which the light and is there a place in
it where their synthesis is indicated?
The Realm Icon that marks the backs of the Gothic Tarot cards represents the
convergence of the forces of light and darkness, order and chaos. The central
ring design represents the physical realm of man, and if you'll notice it's
the same design that's caught between the forces of good and evil in the image
of The World. The Icon itself is actually more of a symbolic representation
than an artistic depiction, along the lines of an Egyptian ankh, but different
people see different things in it. It's sort of like an esoteric Rorschach
test.
There is a strong emphasis these days in Tarot in making
Tarots that demonstrate a sensitivity to many cultures and particularly ethnicities.
Goth and Tarot are mainly eurocultural, at least in their roots. And certainly
most of your cards depict VERY pale creatures. I'm wondering if you feel concerns
about ethnicity and multicultural sensitivity should extend to the realm of
the dead, or undead.
I've always depicted my Gothic characters as gaunt, pale-skinned beings with
lifeless eyes in order to make them subliminally recognizable as undead creatures
of the night. Yes, I agree that Goth and Tarot concepts conjure strong Eurocultural
connotations and are traditionally depicted as such. However, I feel that some
non-traditional decks that successfully incorporate Asian or African motifs
can be appreciated as much as a gothic film like Blade which strayed from the
traditional European vampire stereotype.
What did you have in mind for your Death card?
I had a lot of choices for the Death card, such as the designs that eventually
became the King of Wands and the Five of Wands. I even had two traditional
looking Grim reapers that I didn't include in the Gothic Tarot because I felt
that they were too unoriginal for this project. The ominous Scarecrow painting,
with the wraith-like figure silhouetted against a blood-red sky conveyed the
spiritual aspects as well as the stark realities of death better than any of
the other choices. This particular piece is a fan favorite and has been featured
on the cover of Dark Realms magazine and also as a postcard and calendar image.
To me, it embodies drastic change beyond human control.